khyungbird ([info]khyungbird) wrote,
@ 2006-07-31 16:53:00
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Boku no Shonen Ai (or "Jason overanalyzes something and takes all the fun out of it")
For the last few months, I've been reading a lot of manga. One of the most interesting genres that I've discovered in that time has been shonen ai (or yaoi, or boys' love, or whatever... yaoi is just shonen ai with more sex) which, to me, joins romantic comedies and horror as one of the most archetypal genres of manga. I initially considered asking someone else to do all the yaoi research for me, but I decided that it was something I should learn more about -- and how often do you get paid to read gay porn? So I started gathering yaoi/shonen ai manga from Digital Manga, DramaQueen, Be Beautiful and the other companies. (I still haven't read any of TokyoPop's Blu manga yet.)



I first heard about yaoi/shonen ai in 1996 when I was just starting to work for Viz. Matt Thorn wrote an article about yaoi dojinshi for Viz's old online magazine, including a shot of Piccolo going down on Gohan, which prompted someone to e-mail me (I was the webzine editor), saying (paraphrase) "That's disgusting! That's the most disgusting thing I've seen! Where can I... I mean where do you get this manga?" :/ Nobody had any copies around the office, and I didn't hear much about it, although I was aware of a few '90s titles like KIZUNA and FAKE and oldies like THE SONG OF THE WIND AND TREES, which I flipped through.

A typical perspective on yaoi manga was Chikao Shiratori's brief writeup in PULP magazine in 2000. To quote his opening lines:

"I feel that I can appreciate a wide range of manga...but even I have absolutely no understand of yaoi manga."

Yeah dude. I already know you're straight, I saw you getting all kissy with your wife/girlfriend Murasaki Yamada when I met you in Tokyo in December 2000. Moving on further down the article...

"In class, I asked one of the students who is a fan of yaoi manga about the appeal of yaoi manga. The student, who is a 19-year-old girl, bluntly replied, "To be honest, it is the most convenient form of porn that is available to us.""

Did the Internet exist in the year 2000? I don't remember... hmm... moving on...

"According to her, girls... have sexual needs just as boys (do). However, if a woman, especially a young woman, were to walk into a porn shop, she would be seen as a nymphomaniac. In addition, according to my student, "99% of the material on the market is made from a male perspective." Most certainly, "the women in porn"... are all created from a male perspective. My student said that women just cannot respond to such material."

Well, this makes some sense, I think. The porn shops on Columbus and Broadway a block from my house seem to mostly attract a clientele of men, although I've never been inside, since I'm too busy reading yaoi manga. Stereotypically, most porn is aimed at men... and when I was in high school, I myself had the Andrea-Dworkin-meets-the-Victorian-Era attitude that women weren't into porn because porn was evil & exploitative and only scummy guys thought about that kind of stuff. (See any chapter of THE STIFF.) But, frankly, that attitude is totally outdated & condescending & sexist in its own way. Times have changed, porn is mainstreamed like never before, and (at least in San Francisco, the home of the Good Vibrations chain of sex stores) there's all kinds of consciously progressive, non-sexist porn options aimed at both straight & gay women.

Yaoi is yet another bombing raid on the already smoking ruins of the "women don't like porn" myth. But the interesting thing about yaoi is that it ISN'T what you'd normally think of as "women-centric" -- it's all guys, for god's sake -- and frankly, it isn't usually very progressive either. ("What?! Of COURSE the #1 thing people want in their sexual fantasies is political correctness!" ;) ) It comes from an entirely different perspective and it's very effective at what it does. The nearest analogue is straight men's fascination with lesbians, but I think that shonen ai is a little more complicated and less superficial than just the desire to see the opposite sex getting it on without any distracting male genitals.



The first thing to realize about shonen ai is that it really has almost no relation to actual gay men. (Although Carl Gustav Horn was extremely skeptical of Shiratori's statistic that yaoi has "99% female readership"... I myself ran into a gay friend from college on my first trip to YaoiCon in 2001.) I wasn't aware of yaoi's apolitical nature when I first read it... in fact, I was hoping to find some cool progressive manga about gay issues, or failing that, some really juicy tormented pre-1970s-style repressed-homosexuality melodrama. In fact, it's usually neither; almost all shonen ai takes place in a world without homophobia, and most of them don't even use the word "gay," although it's still not as wimpy as your typical shonen/shojo manga where characters say things like "I'm not gay, I just like Minami-sempai!" or whatever. There's usually just enough acknowledgment of gayness for there to be a faint feeling of forbidden love, but not enough for any kind of political statement or even self-identification. (When I first read HANA-KIMI, I thought its depictions of gay themes sucked, but they're deep compared to most shonen ai manga.) I've heard that in Japan, "coming out" is less common because of social stigma, so maybe this reflects the actual prejudices of Japanese society, but I really don't know -- I think it's because the audience of shonen ai (at least in Japan) isn't really interested in those things, whether out of homophobia or, more likely, because it's a distraction from the emotional fix they seek. Yaoi is pure fantasy, and doesn't pretend to be anything else... it doesn't claim to "realistically depict the emotional lives of gay men" or anything like that. It isn't like some kind of gender-reversed STRANGERS IN PARADISE emo sensitive-wankerboy fantasy. On the other hand, American shonen ai fans tend to be more politically aware, like Abby Denson, whose recent book TOUGH LOVE (which she started drawing in the mid-90s) aims for realism in its depiction of gay boys in high school.


ANTIQUE BAKERY is one of the only even remotely yaoi-ish manga to have a scene like this.

The books often have beautiful covers and production values; Digital Manga's lineup, in particular, looks like a scattering of jewels (or perhaps flowers is a more shojo-appropriate image), each one promising strange pleasures. The evocative, ambiguous titles...the discreet covers, as opposed to the blatantly pornographic covers of straight male porn like Eros Mangerotica... the varied art... and the formulaic stories. Shonen ai/yaoi is, frankly, EXTREMELY formulaic. It's one of those things where you have to read book after book in hopes of uncovering some slight variation on a theme, some marginal playing around within the restrictions of the genre. Every genre is formulaic -- there's not that many fighting manga which end with the hero getting his ass kicked, or romance manga which end with the main characters breaking up -- but shonen ai seems unusually so, possibly because the stories are so short. Basically, every manga is a monogamous romance between two guys, with no serious rivals, and it always ends happily. ("Happily" meaning that they get together, that is... there may be rape, coercion or borderline incest and pedophilia involved, but the moral of shonen ai is that it's always okay because they love eachother.) :/



I've never read Harlequin Romances or anything like that, so shonen ai is the first time that I've encountered "emotional porn" -- by which I mean, not porn with emotions, but stories where the emotional content is as predictable (and often as extreme) as the sex scenes in porn. "I love you. I always loved you -- I've had a crush on you for the last three years. I set up this insane stalker-like scheme because I loved you. I'll never leave you. I don't like it when you talk to other guys, don't you know that I love you?" This kind of stuff is the emotional money shots of shonen ai. (Or at least the more story-centric shonen ai -- some of the shorter ones, like CLAN OF THE NAKAGAMIS, are more humorous and self-parodying.) To put it in standard shojo/shonen manga terms: there are no shonen ai "harem manga" where one character is torn between multiple suitors. All the 30+ shonen ai I've read is "perfect, idealized pair" relationship manga. Everyone, even the rapists and bad guys, loves the target of their affections with a deep, obsessive passion, never having second thoughts or feeling attracted to different people at the same time or getting confused or getting rejected or wimping out and giving up. In shonen ai, neediness and possessiveness are positive traits, when in real life, someone would probably be rushing these characters to a counselor. The sexual content, whether explicit or PG-rated (there is a wide range), is linked directly to the emotional content. There's no casual sex in shonen ai manga (except occasionally offscreen and with peripheral characters). In EMBRACING LOVE, which always skirts on the very edge of the genre, one of the characters suggests having an orgy, but it all falls apart because no one's into it. "What's wrong? You're not even hard." "What about you? Your mouth is totally dry." (I love that last line, for the same reason I love the line in LEVEL C, "I'll make sure you have multiple orgasms.") ;)

As these lines indicate, most shonen ai is aware that it's not realistic, and that the men aren't exactly realistic men. Considering that it's an escape from reality, one of the more disappointing things about shonen ai, to me, is that it usually follows a model of stereotypical male-female relationships. It's all seme-uke, dominant-submissive; big aggressive guys with dark hair pursue little delicate guys with light hair, and when they get in bed (again, except in EMBRACING LOVE, once or twice) no one ever flips over and switches sides. Is there no equality? In the few manga which don't have a clear seme-uke, the most common alternative is to have lovers who are exactly alike, like in SAME CELL ORGANISM, where the characters basically form two halves of the same person, as if with an intuitive understanding that lovers of different genders can supposedly never have. But the seme-uke relationships in shonen ai manga have one big advantage over straight porn, one big purposeful ambiguity; since both lovers are the same gender, it's up to you, in your heart of hearts, to choose who you identify with more.

In a way, all shonen ai manga is an attempt to break free of the prison of gender, not entirely different from most male-written American superhero comics with female protagonists. In both cases, the opposite sex is depicted in a stereotypically "idealized" way, according to the tastes of the writer; and in both cases, when they're not being heroic and passionate, they're often suffering serious abuse. When I first read BATTLE ANGEL ALITA over 10 years ago (and it's a pretty innocuous example), I felt that the main character was serving a double function as a sort of sex object and action figure. On the one hand: "She's a strong heroine! She's independent! Look at her beat up creepy, sexist bad guys!" On the other hand: "She's got breasts! She's got panties! She moves at the (male) artist's command! The sexist bad guys make the male reader feel oh so much less sexist by comparison, and plus as long as she's single, the reader's still got a chance!"



Obviously it shouldn't be a big deal to identify with the opposite gender -- unless we're total jerks, we all attempt to identify with people of different sexes, sexual orientations, social groups, etc., every day. Escapism is one of the places where morality comes from. What's interesting is the amount of fantasy that goes into the mix; escapism usually isn't much of a genuine attempt to experience something new, as much as it is an attempt to deal with (or escape from) our own issues. One theory about shonen ai is that it's a "safe" expression of lesbian feelings. (There are many lesbian shonen ai fans.) Moto Hagio wrote some of the first proto-shonen-ai manga in the 1970s. In her interview in The Comics Journal #269, she explains that the first draft of her boy's love manga THE HEART OF THOMAS was written as a lesbian story involving girls. But:

"When I wrote it as a boys' school story, everything fell into place smoothly. But when I wrote the girls' school version, it came out sort of giggly...It's interesting you can have a girl and a boy say the same line, but though the girl sounds so cheeky when she says it, the boy can sound so cool. (laughter)."

Well hmm. That's interesting, because I feel the exact same way with the genders switched. (Except substitute "unsympathetic" for "cheeky.") When I was in my early 20s, when I was a virgin and didn't know if I was gay or straight, I was really into lesbian-themed comics, like Ariel Schrag's. I was also into gay comics like Howard Cruse's, but they were secondary; why would I want to read about a bunch of lame men when I can read about fascinating women? I wasn't comfortable enough with my own body to read about men. But on the other hand, Alison Bechdel's comics were a little too "domestic" for me. I wasn't particularly interested in stories about middle-aged lesbians going about their daily lives. I wanted passion, I wanted angst, I wanted characters who I both found attractive and kind of wished that I was (everyone who knows me, as you read this line, please purge your mind of the reality of my physical appearance). All this wrapped up in the allure of gayness, the "homosexual mystique" plus the "feminine mystique." (And today, there's even a Taschen photo-book of 1970s macho advertisement art called "The Male Mystique.") To Schrag, they were autobiographical comics; to me, they were a form of escapism that I could only experience through female characters. I hope it was healthier escapism than watching some crappy all-female moe bishojo anime.

So I liked Ariel Schrag's comics for a long time (I still do), and now I feel, perhaps delusionally, that I'm seeing the other side of the mirror -- the "grass is greener on the other side of the fence" gender question. When you think someone is beautiful and awesome, is it because you admire them and want to be like them, or because you're attracted to them and want to have sex with them? Which is the stronger drive: sex or identity? Both are present in the shonen ai phenomenon. The (male) characters in shonen ai are escapist vessels into which (mostly female) readers can pour themselves. They may be gently treated or horribly abused, but their bodies are the battlegrounds for fantasies which people can never play out, at least not under normal circumstances. Since they are unfamiliar battlegrounds, they are particularly roughly treated. Emotionally and physically (those hairless bodies, that long, sleek hair) they fuse male and female traits in a way that matches the readers' desires, creating a sort of perfect hermaphroditic creatures who happen to have penises.

Oh yeah, and it's just fun pr0n. The one-to-three-volume yaoi/shonen ai series, the shortest and most formulaic ones, are the shonen ai equivalent of crack pipes or fast food or stroke mags. But the slash-fanfic approach of shonen ai has seeped into the most mainstream anime and manga (example #1: Naruto and Sasuke's kiss in the second chapter of NARUTO). It is a respected form of fanservice, as ubiquitous as the panty shot, if not more so, since it's easier to get away with without pissing off the censors.



There's probably many more reasons to like shonen ai than the ones I've listed (like, possibly, the sex), but frankly, my basic reaction is that it's great. I respect its role, even if I find a lot of it pretty boring, and even if I don't want to say "Thumbs up! Thumps up to everything!" to some of the more bizarre and nonconsensual stuff. (Yeah... always Mr. Moralistic.) I think there was a missing piece in the world before it was invented; it makes me wonder if women in past ages were turned on by the idea of hot gay dudes. They probably were. I hope it continues to thrive (and, even though this isn't its main purpose, makes people less homophobic), and I hope that good artists (like Fumi Yoshinaga, creator of ANTIQUE BAKERY) continue to push the envelope of the genre. As for myself, I think I'd like to write a shonen ai manga someday. It will be a cruel and vicious and beautiful one.


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[info]jaderabbit
2006-08-01 12:58 am UTC (link)
Cool. Now I want to borrow all your shonen ai manga. :)

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[info]panxa
2006-08-01 01:07 am UTC (link)
I think the appeal is definitely a combo of the easy access and the emotional content. That's why we started reading romance novels in high school. Both yaoi and romance novels are highly humorous, even when trying to be serious, so they are a good escape from what ails you (with the notable exceptions of the rape scenes, which I stop reading because I don't need that in my head). They run the gamut from handholding to hardcore (something for everyone), and they're easy to get your hands on. Plus, the characters have some emotional connection (even if it is admittedly creepy in some titles), so they don't have the squik factor of strangers banging each other on first sight that porn does (or some hardcore erotica, for that matter).

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-01 01:23 am UTC (link)
Thanks for the comments, Pancha. Like the difference between shonen ai and yaoi, I never fully understood the distinction between porn and erotica... isn't it sort of a high-low culture class system between "sleazy" and "classy"?

My favorite scene of anything involving romance novels is the scene in REMAINS OF THE DAY when Emma Thompson catches Anthony Hopkins reading some book he doesn't want her to see, and she's teasing him because she thinks it's porn, and then she pauses and she's like "Why... this is just a sentimental old romance novel." And he's all "Yes... um... I find them highly educational." It's a true "AWWW" moment. ;)

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Post from Cara
(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 08:54 am UTC (link)
The difference between porn and erotica is emotional. Erotica tends to focus on the emotional connection between the characters however tenuous. Porn is sex, plain and simple. Erotica usually has some sort of plot, however badly written. Porn is a series of scenes that may or may not be related with characters that may or may not show up again. High brow, low brow, eye brow, your call.

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[info]panxa
2006-08-01 05:26 pm UTC (link)
Erotica is considered classier than romance novels, yes. It's like the literary version, or something. But in actuality, the erotica I've come across is really like written porn. One sex scene after another, each trying to outdo the last. The reason I like romance novels is there is more of a semblance of plot, there are discernable characters, and there is emotion. For a while there, some publishers were making a push to market their high-end writers as erotica, but I think that was abandoned. Maybe "erotica" sounds too pervy to the general romance reader?

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[info]mognetcentral
2006-08-01 02:32 am UTC (link)
Emotional porn is a great term. Pretty boys, pretty boy + girl... hardly matters which. I'm not sure I get more out of shonen ai than something wonderfully smutty like Hot Gimmick, but maybe those confessional love scenes are a convention of that genre. I think those are my favorite bits of Hot Gimmick. Strangely, they remind me of declarations of love in Jane Austen. Hmm.

(Maybe off topic, but have you read any Ouran High School Host Club? It fits into the harem manga you mentioned which isn't usually associated with shonen ai, but it's really popular among the yaoi and shonen ai readership. Probably because of the twins and Mori/Hunny, but everyone's after Haruhi and she's the only main girl character.)

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-01 03:54 am UTC (link)
I've read Ouran... it's awesome. I like Hot Gimmick a lot too, even though it's so totally screwed up. Its high points are really, really good.

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[info]sw_inku
2006-08-01 03:41 am UTC (link)
You know I have a lot to say on the subject, as I am apparently some sort of gay porn scholar. I 'm a little dead right now and kind of only seeing out of one eye so I shall save my comments for another day.

But let me leave you with the gift of porn. Well not really porn, but it's a short comic by Maki Kanemaru & Yukine Honami. Called "kiss scandel" its about a US. congressman and his secretary. It's kind of this odd idealized america but its pretty cool and not normal for the genre. DOWNLOAD.
Did I ever give you that antique bakery doujin about fangirls? do you want it? I forget.

P.S. I fricken HATED "Ouran High School Host Club" A LOT.

P.S.S. If I had not ADORED you before. Your essays would have won me over.
P.S.S.S. SEND ME STUFF TO COLOR

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-01 03:59 am UTC (link)
Awesome! Thanks for "Kiss Scandal"! I just downloaded it, I'll let you know when I check it out. Although my comic is on hiatus (sob) I'm working on a picture for you to color... soon, soon! And no, you never gave me the Antique Bakery dojinshi. Where do I find it?

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[info]sw_inku
2006-08-01 05:16 pm UTC (link)
Here you go from the the depths of my computer.
http://downloads.genkiinc.net/antique_dj-kouzaka_no_ehonneutral.zip

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post from Cara
(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 08:49 am UTC (link)
Shonen ai sounds very much like the Slash fan-fic that female fans write about their fav sci-fi/fantasy heros. Kirk n Spock, Frodo n Sam, Nick Knight and Lacroix (obscure Canadian vampire cop show.) I rather suspect that the story lines say more about the longings of the girls who read them rather than real Gay boys (I've never known one to turn down an orgy.) Sounds like the readers are pretty starved for love. As for the non-consensual stuff, well, if you don't consent you don't have to take responsibility for your desires either. Japan as I understand it, is pretty conservative when it comes to feminine desire. Admitting you want to bang that pretty boy like a cheap screen door in a hurricane would probably give you a reputation of being 'fast' and 'dirty'. It's probably something a girl can't admit even to herself. Which also explains the fantasy aspect. Did you know? Most men tend to fantasize about women they know while most women tend to fantasize about fantasy men. It's because if a man has sex with co-worker his social status increases among other men. While the woman he had sex with would lose status among both men and women. He goes up and she goes down. Yes, the double standard is very much in place. Which is why fantasy is a big part of sex and very likely, always will be.

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(Anonymous)
2006-08-01 06:12 pm UTC (link)
"In a way, all shonen ai manga is an attempt to break free of the prison of gender, not entirely different from most male-written American superhero comics with female protagonists. In both cases, the opposite sex is depicted in a stereotypically "idealized" way, according to the tastes of the writer; and in both cases, when they're not being heroic and passionate, they're often suffering serious abuse."

A very interesting insight, and one I've never heard before. But I feel there should have been some disclosure statement in your article; nowhere does it mention that you yourself are a bishonen.

Japan underwent something of a quiet sexual revolution in the 1990s with a definite emphasis on female liberation (perhaps, more Helen Gurley Brown than Germaine Greer); it is possible the relationship of yaoi manga to society has changed as well. Of course, just as the bishojo ethic has spread to shonen manga over the past 15-20 years (partially supplanting the "tough guy" emphasis--one reason you feel such sympathy for the students of Cromartie High is that these poor refugees belong in '70s boys' manga), so has the bishonen style. It is impossible to think the creators of HIKARU NO GO or PRINCE OF TENNIS don't take this aesthetic into account; you may be aware of the recent survey that indicated the favorite manga magazine among Japanese girls was in fact SHONEN JUMP. Anyone visiting Comike would suspect that, of course.

—Carl

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anderson_t
2006-08-03 08:23 pm UTC (link)
There's a difference between aimai fans and 'fans of BL'. One should also keep this in mind when looking at those Shounen Jump stats.

Yaoi Fangurls Aren't Even Fans of Yaoi:
http://gynocrat.blogdrive.com/archive/239.html

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(Anonymous)
2006-08-03 02:23 pm UTC (link)
What's the appeal of yaoi manga?
I think it comes down to a couple of bullet points:

• It's created by women for women
• It's slightly naughty

What do you think?

-Eric

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-03 05:54 pm UTC (link)
You could say the same about Harlequin Romances. I think yaoi manga is more complicated than just this.

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anderson_t
2006-08-03 08:39 pm UTC (link)
The only thing I can say about Harlequin Romances is that I'm 99.9% sure they're doomed to failure with the mature American josei fen. >_>

One time someone asked what the difference was between 'slash' and 'yaoi' over at Aestheticism. It was Maygra, in the Aestheticism fanzine, who wrote: Yaoi can exist without explanation... Touching on more specific differences she went on: Yaoi comes with its own framework. Slash has to build the framework external to the story. Yaoi generates the situations based on the relationships. Slash generates the relationships based on the situation.

I think her assessment is perfect; BL isn't weighed down by justification, and that’s what true escapism through fiction is all about.

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[info]pgrape
2006-08-03 04:02 pm UTC (link)
Thank you for a really interesting take on BL--haven't seen a lot of thoughtful comment like this out there. I think in the next few years, we might finally get some stuff translated that will "complicate" a few of your generalizations. ("Embracing Love" is exceptional, but it isn't the only thing out there that takes the genre and plays with it...) I think it's worthwhile to ask--why are US publishers *choosing* to market material that is so rigidly within a genre formula? Is it just the availability of licenses, or does this bias reflect how publishers "read" the US readership for BL?

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-03 06:01 pm UTC (link)
That's a good question. I imagine that like other manga publishers, they're probably trying to establish the mainstream stuff (relatively speaking within the shonen ai genre) before they start doing the weirder stuff. Just like the first shonen ai manga to come out from Digital Manga was the very safe, socially acceptable (but not bad) ONLY THE RING FINGER KNOWS. And then only later on did you start seeing the really strange pairings and the more self-referential things. Also, it's remotely possible that the Japanese publishers themselves proposed their better-selling titles to be the first licenses, and the titles which sell better in Japan are probably the more mainstream ones.

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[info]pgrape
2006-08-03 06:28 pm UTC (link)
I mention the licensing thing because I wrote to TokyoPop/Blu a few weeks ago and suggested Riyu Yamakami as a manga-ka to check out. The anonymous respondent said yes, they knew Yamakami-sensei's work and hoped to publish some "if licenses become available." Which I thought was an odd locution--and perhaps provides some support for the hypothesis that the Japanese publishers are to some extent controlling what becomes available for translation.

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-03 06:36 pm UTC (link)
There could definitely be internal reasons why they can't license something. They might not even be money- and copyright-related reasons. In the past, Manga Company V** was occasionally told that they couldn't license something because the artist (or publisher) didn't feel it would be appropriate to publish in America. And coming from the other direction, V** has occasionally been told (by Japan) to publish things, and then turned around and said "ARE YOU CRAZY?! WE'LL ALL BE ARRESTED!"

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-03 06:37 pm UTC (link)
It could also simply be because they don't have contacts with Riyu Yamakami's publishers, or because Yamakami is a difficult artist to work with.

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anderson_t
2006-08-03 09:10 pm UTC (link)
"I hope that good artists (like Fumi Yoshinaga, creator of ANTIQUE BAKERY) continue to push the envelope of the genre. As for myself, I think I'd like to write a shonen ai manga someday. It will be a cruel and vicious and beautiful one."

With all due respect to Fumi Yoshinaga, I hardly think Yf is setting the trend for the genre in terms of though-provoking BL. 0_0. There are so many stories out there that will never be published stateside by licensors because the art isn't 'aesthetically' marketable. Right now, the best plot-driven BL comes from the likes of Miyamoto Kano or Nishida Higashi.

If you're looking for beauty that's cruel and vicious, one need only look in the 'OEL/BL' scene for that; at least licensors like Drama Queen will use Yaoicon 2006 as an avenue to introduce OEL/BL in bi-monthly doses to the American market.

^_-

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-18 06:38 am UTC (link)
Sorry I didn't reply way, way sooner. Actually I just got a whole bunch of DramaQueen stuff and I'm really looking forward to reading it.

I'm not particularly into the bondage/rape/S&M stuff myself, but one of my yaoi-ignorant (more than me) friends once went to YaoiCon, disbelieving that it was "real" porn, and asked a dealer, "Gimme the hardest stuff you got!" And then she took it home and couldn't finish reading it because it was too full of rape & sex toys & so forth. Well, she learned not to underestimate yaoi manga... ;)

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anderson_t
2006-08-18 01:26 pm UTC (link)
Just came into my inbox: Sorry...I thought the avoidance was intentional. ^_^ What did she purchase? Zettai Reido? It's strange because the readership in Japan has matured a bit and so you won't find 'as much of' the nasty [IMHO disgusting for the point of being disgusting] anthology phonebooks, that were once quite prevalent. Zettai, for example, ceased publication as sales for BL went down in Japan, and novels are once again on the rise.

The more popular anthy's for mature women are story oriented, [I never read the fare created for women in their late teens] and Drama Queen's been on a steady kick of licensing the more mature works from Ookura Shuppan [Aqua]. By mature, I don’t mean explicit. ^_-

It's strange; one needs only to look at the Haru series from Nitta Yuuka to see how the mangaka has shifted focus in her story telling, in order to entertain the changing readership. Haru started out as 'porn', just look at the first set of books from BeBeautiful...but now this story now has moved on to something very plot-oriented [still sexy, but there's something more tangible there than two porn stars who fall in love].

Oy vey, I'm rambling...I'll stifle now.

-Tina Anderson

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-18 07:56 pm UTC (link)
I don't recall what she picked up (except that it involved a church and lots of heavy sex tools), but I'll be running into her this weekend so maybe I'll ask if I can see the tankobon.

So BL *manga* sales have gone down in Japan recently, but novel sales are increasing? I didn't know that... I, too, wish CPM/Be Beautiful would be able to continue with the Haru/Embracing Love, that's definitely one of my favorite series. :/

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anderson_t
2006-08-18 11:17 pm UTC (link)
So BL *manga* sales have gone down in Japan recently, but novel sales are increasing?

I can't speak for the whole market as if I’m there, only what I see in terms of production [publishers discontinuing, and product changing by year] and I also go by what my friends in Japan are talking about and making [I was a doujinshika who traded extensively with other circles] - which became, predominantly novels. 0_0.
If anyone knows more about the Japan scene on the whole, they're free to correct me. ^^;

I wonder how well 'novels' are doing over here, though. Konohara Narise is known for her semes with 'questionably moral tastes' and to license her safest novels first and then try to move into the ‘OMG’ sort of work, she normally dabbles in, might not go over so well. Case in point, poor Jordan at Yaoi Suki who reviewed the second of Narise’s novel releases from June Manga, Don't Worry Momma. A lively, yet tiny dicussion, picked up in their forum after, because I love Narise's morally ambiguous seme, and the relationships she writes.

-Tina

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[info]jensuki
2006-08-03 09:43 pm UTC (link)
I'm going to go with anderson_t and expand it a little bit-- most of what you're reading is the stuff that's released in the US, which tends to shy away from a lot of the harder themes explored more frequently in Japan. Understandably so, since at this point the yaoi market is fairly young in the US, and companies are just now starting to get a bit more risky in their licensing (e.g. BLU licensing cracktastic "Sex Pistols").

And it's also understandable that you've only read what's retail-ly available in English, but you might consider checking out scanlations-- many of which are of manga that isn't likely to come to the US any time soon. Not necessarily because you might like it, mind, but because a lot of it will shatter what you think of as "standard" in BL stuff. Tori Maia (the bondage queen) and Dr. Ten (the shouta extraordinaire) come to mind as much darker yaoi mangaka you might look into. In fact, I recommend that you start keeping tabs on [info]yaoi_daily-- a lot of people post a lot of different scanlations of a LOT of different types of yaoi and slash doujinshi. Daily. ;D

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-03 10:21 pm UTC (link)
Wow, I love your icon... I know I have a pretty superficial understanding compared to people who've actually read a lot of untranslated yaoi. I've checked out some scanslations (like the ones Stevie gave me), but I've been too insanely busy for the last few months to really go too far into the jungle. I hope I can make it to YaoiCon this year, though.

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[info]queeniechan
2006-08-04 03:41 am UTC (link)

Nice article. :D But I should mention that while shounen-ai is a subgenre of manga aimed at women, there is also a fair amount of EXPLICIT male-male sex happening in manga drawn by women. Some are which are totally insane too (there seems to be alot of comedy happening along with the hardcore sex). And you also can't underestimate the power of the doujinshi market in Japan and South-East Asia, where good percentage of BL works exists. I mention South-East Asia because a friend just came back from a Taiwanese Doujinshi Comic-con, and there is just as many people drawing BL there (both original and fanworks) as there are in Japan.

That said, I also think that trying to categorise shounen-ai these days is kinda pointless. The whole boy-boy (or male-male) relationship angle (whether heavily sexualised or not) has leaked out into mainstream stuff and is pretty much like fanservice. You mentioned this in your article, but I just want to point out the danger of "ghetto-ising" something which is NOT really a genre into a genre. I don't think "shounen-ai" was ever really a genre to begin with, since it began with female artists drawing stories that just HAPPEN to have two guys in love with each other (along with a fair amount of cross-dressing and gender-bending).

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-04 05:33 am UTC (link)
It's true that the boundaries are blurry, but that doesn't mean it's not a genre, at least as long as marketers & publishers say it is. Based at least on what I've seen in translation, most of the stuff published in BExBOY and CHARA and the other shonen ai/yaoi magazines in Japan follows a very specific formula. Just like you can safely say that anything published in GEKKAN HALLOWEEN is a horror manga. As long as there are people who specifically want to read shonen ai and have certain expectations, and there are publishers & artists willing to play to those expectations, then it's a genre. (Although there's plenty of other stuff that's not so formulaic.)

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[info]queeniechan
2006-08-05 02:28 am UTC (link)

Oh sure, shounen-ai is still a "genre", I never said that it wasn't. I'm just pointing out that there's alot more stuff to be explored out there besides this one rather formulaic part of the market. And besides, I think shounen-ai is aimed at a young audience anyway, as opposed to a teenage or adult one. But you know that anyway, so it's just a matter of finding the right material to read. XD

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-05 04:05 am UTC (link)
Cool, now I understand what you mean (and I agree about the basically young audience of shonen ai). I don't suppose you're coming all the way from Australia for Yaoi-Con? :) Heh.

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[info]queeniechan
2006-08-05 12:03 pm UTC (link)

I'd love to! XD But then my convention schedule is probably restricted to Australia this year. Next year, I'm thinking of going to SDCC, but so far, there are no concrete plans. :)

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[info]greenapple2004
2006-08-06 10:59 pm UTC (link)
I'd be interested to see what you think of some of the stuff in BLU, since basically the licensing strategy for the line has been "Stuff that Makes Our Licensing Team Laugh," whether the laughter is from an actual humorous situation, or from surprise at seeing something fresh and new. There certainly are some of the standard cliches in there, and some of the edgier situations that plague the genre by being so easily accepted (Menkui starts off cute and light, and then throws in the brother/brother thing), but overall, it's fairly diverse, and with at least a few quirky highlights.

Whether what we think is amusing manages to register with more of the fanbase remains to be seen, though, I guess. What's cliche to those of us who have read mountains of manga in the last few years may not register that way to someone just discovering the genre.

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-07 05:42 pm UTC (link)
You're totally right about cliches being a matter of perspective... someone is always a newbie who thinks such-and-such is the most original thing on earth. (Then again, I had never read any shonen ai before this January.) I'd be interested in seeing more of the BLU books too!

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[info]totalspazmo
2006-08-09 05:38 am UTC (link)
I agree with a lot of what you've written here. BL manga is definitely serving an audience - but I think in many ways that audience found it because there wasn't anything else.

I think that, in terms of 'romance' as a genre (which is a big part of the fiction market), BL manga is the closest analog. Sure, there are shoujo titles, but most of the time they are targeted at a younger age group and the 'romance' is too much of a fantasy for anyone to really get into. How much agonizing over hand-holding is really possible for someone over 17 to read about?

Plus, women like their porn too - it just uses a different vocabulary, but it's a vocabulary that is used in romance novels and BL manga. I've got limited experience with josei (though I love Kimi wa petto, the focus isn't necessarily on romance). However, in shoujo manga, perhaps because the main character is a girl, the content seems excessively tame. In a way, perhaps the BL mangaka gets away with more by putting that idealized uke in the girl's place. BL manga on average is a lot more explicit, even through its layers of frothy romance fantasy, than any shoujo title I've ever seen.

Another reason why I think BL manga appeals to women more than other 'romance' content in the medium is that it's hard to screw a female character up when there isn't one.

I find there's a shortage of interesting female characters in manga. Perhaps it's because I am a reader coming at this from outside the cultural climate of Japan, but I find reticence and self-effacement to be frustrating. It's not necessarily that the characters in BL are more dimensional, but they are idealized fantasy males. So for a female reader, it's a way to completely sidestep the issue.

Maybe in a couple of ways, BL manga is subversive, it manages to address certain gender issues in an indirect way.

ps - if I may make a suggestion, check out 'Koi Ga Bokura Wo Yurusu Hani' by Motoni Modoru. It's surprising in a lot of ways. For one thing, the two main characters are in relationships with women - both of whom have actual personalities - and it's about what happens when the girlfriends give the guys qualified permission to get together. Another interesting point about it is that there is a lot of discussion about the difference between ai (used to describe male/female love) and koi (used here for the male/male relationship. If you're interested, reply and I'll upload some scanlations. I think it's 3 books total. Okay, done blathering now.

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-09 10:52 am UTC (link)
I'd love to see scanslations of "Koi Ga Bokura" (etc.). Please post them!

Tho' I'm male and all, I think that you may be right about yaoi manga being a way to sidestep issues about sexism & the presentation of women in the stories. I might be wrong, but my guess is that it may feel less uncomfortable (for women) to see these molestation/rape stories played out with male characters. For women, after all, sexual harrassment and worse are a real threat, whereas with male characters it's more of a fantasy projection. On the other hand, there's plenty of man-woman Harlequin-style romance novels which involve rape & stuff, so maybe it's just one of those things which certain people are willing to admit into their fantasies. But I still think the fact that they're male characters makes it easier to overlook the nonconsensual elements. I also agree about the generally wimpy nature of female characters in shojo manga...

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[info]totalspazmo
2006-08-10 06:13 am UTC (link)
I think you're right about the whole 'gender apart' thing making it easier to distance the fantasy playing out in the story from what rape actually is. You mention Harlequin-type stuff containing non-consensual elements - they likely do, because the readership appreciates that kind of alpha-male stereotype - but I doubt it would approach the frequency and violence that it does in BL.

I've tried to figure out why it's so common. I think the best I can come up with is that it's playing into some watered-down madonna/whore perception. Removing the issue of choice makes it harder to make judgements on the victim, and thus easier to write him as "upstanding salaryman" or whatever other trope the artist chooses. Before that point, more often than not, he's a pillar of virtue and unwanting of the gay sex. So I suppose it might have a dual purpose - one being to avoid assigning responsibility to the character, and the second being to actually get him into a sexual level of interaction without having to write him into it.

This theme of coercion/nix-responsibility isn't BL-specific. It definitely has a lot more violent coercion, though (when girls are involved, threats/blackmail are the weapons of choice). It would probably appear a lot more in shoujo, were there more adult-oriented titles. I know I've seen this recently in a Aihara Miki manga, where a female teacher has coerced sex with a student of hers (coincidentally also her boyfriend's brother). It seems to be a common device used in situations with those power dynamics (probably 'cause it's harder to empathize with the teacher who willingly cheats on her boyfriend with a student than it is to like someone who's been victimised). Anyway, the thing I find weirdest about rose-tinted rape stories is how, within the context of the manga, it is almost never revisited. At most, there's a lame follow-up line acknowledging that it was a bad thing to do, or someone flinches. I suppose if you have a 40 page chapter, you don't want to spend any of it on PTSD counseling. . .

But before I write a book, here you go:

http://filedump.slapfight.org/KoiGa/
(In light of my new disturbing topic of conversation, I think NCS is mentioned at some point in this series - but it doesn't really play out. Also, the motivations for it have little to do with love or sex, which is at least a variation.)

And now, if you're looking for something light, hilarious, and potentially mind-breaking. . . Quick summary: a school-bus crashes into a shrine. A boy goes into a coma, but his soul possesses another boy's penis. Yes, you read that right. Also, the penises talk.

http://filedump.slapfight.org/Chintsubu/

Talk about the mystique of the "other." (and sorry about the overly long comments, I never knew I had so much to say about this. over and out.)

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[info]khyungbird
2006-08-18 08:29 pm UTC (link)
I'm sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I just wanted to say thanks for the excellent comments on the nonconsensual elements in BL manga. And thanks for the files! Gyaa, plenty of reading material...

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